THIS WEEK - Huckabee, Evangelical Buzz-Phrases, A Billboard Controversy, Atheist Victims, and Cats
SI has a pleasant dream about Mike Huckabee and Ex turns it into a nightmare. The Herd adds a few wake-up calls of their own. (0:00)
Everyone on the panel agrees that atheists should recognize and reject evangelical buzz-phrases, including “pro-life,” “family values,” and “teach the controversy.” Listen to hear even more. (12:00)
Ex defends the Christian owners of a billboard who chose to “rebut” an atheist ad that had been previously displayed there. The Herd weighs in. SI is cranky about his own reluctant answer. (23:15)
Do atheists have a victim mentality? Do too many of us love the “poor wittle atheist” ploy? Evo draws a distinction between being a victim and having to fight battles. Ex wonders if he, himself, doesn’t just have a chip on his shoulder. Listeners are asked and encouraged to leave their own victim stories — if they have any. (35:49)
The Herd refuses to buy OG’s self-characterization as "a quiet little mouse.” Which leads us to a closing commentary on cats. (47:31)
Opening Music [00:00]: excerpt from "Another Goddamned Draft"
Bridge Music [11:35]: excerpt from "for Evo"
Bridge Music [19:30]: excerpt from "Middle Earth"
Bridge Music [39:10]: excerpt from "Waltz of the Dead"
Closing Music [52:55]: excerpt from "As Jazzy As I Get"
(All music copyright 2008 by Rachel Murie)
This Week's Goddamned Links
James Dobson/Focus on the Family
Huckabee on changing the Constitution
Senate Seats up in 2008
This one's our Bill: Donohue vs. Maher
There's no controversy to teach
Another Goddamned Soundtrack by Babs
Pennsylvania atheist billboard
Freedom from Religion Foundation
Dueling Billboards
An example of an atheist victim
Holy Cats!
Cat and Dog
Give this post a thumbs up
I dig this post
Vote up on The Atheist Spot
Reddit
del.icio.us
15 comments:
Regarding that poll on the sidebar, I'm an atheist who has no pets, but I'd just like to register that I really wish I could have a cat. my parents have two cats. Unfortunately I'm not settled enough to have pets :(
What do we do if confronted by President Huckabee? Start setting up the Resistance! If only I were eloquent enough to be your Camus, I'd fly in just to take part in the struggle ;) (But, also, if McCain runs with Huckabee, use that in the campaign against him!)
When it comes to words, sometimes they're worth fighting over and sometimes it's better to try to keep the common phrasing so as to make communication possible. Prioritise communication as a general rule -- if it's going to take work to get people to understand your new phrasing, you have to weigh that against the misinformation that might be conveyed by the phrasing itself.
I'd never use 'teach the controversy', and 'family values' is itself a silly, ambiguous -- nay, contradictory -- phrase that does nothing for communication. But if I'm speaking to someone who says she's 'pro-life', I might not use that term myself, but I won't try to correct her unless she's explicitly or implicitly using the term 'life' as part of her argument. Otherwise, I'd rather cut the nonsense and just explain my position.
Ext, in the interest of accuracy, that billboard didn't actually have the twin towers on it. The one with twin towers was an advertisement for the 'Root of all Evil?' documentary.
The discussions are getting a bit repetitious. Sometimes it seems like you're spending forever just agreeing with each other.
There should be a difference between claiming that atheists are victims and pointing out that many people have unreasonable prejudices against atheists. It annoys people if you claim more grievance than they think you deserve. But if you point out, factually, that X isn't fair, or that commonly held belief Y isn't true, you've got a better chance of being heard.
The outtakes are still the best bit.
Lynet:
Thanks for taking the time to post all your ideas. We actually realized after the fact that my description of the billboard was completely wrong. We'll be talking further in our next podcast about new developments at that sign, and I'll be sure to issue a correction. Thanks for spotting the error, though, and never hesitate to tell us if we've made a factual mistake. Knowing us, there will be plenty of those; so you're hereby appointed one of our accuracy cops.
The discussions are getting a bit repetitious. Sometimes it seems like you're spending forever just agreeing with each other.
Yep, we know. We're working on this. Try to bear with us as we hone our podcasting skills. We couldn't seem to find a topic last week on which we had a wide divergence of viewpoints. If you can think of a subject that would generate a juicy controversy among atheists, by all means throw it our way; we'd be very grateful. You can also send a private email to any one of us.
The outtakes are still the best bit.
Unfortunately you're not the only one who thinks that. Ultimately, we may just do an outtakes show, and have our brilliant editor, OG, patch in three or four minutes of serious conversation at the end.
Thanks a lot for listening so attentively, Lynet. And why don't you go ahead and change your vote to make yourself a cat person. I promise the poll gods won't be offended.
Just to second Ex's comment, Lynet, I think what we were really driving at is - are you a "cat person"? Actually being owned by a cat is optional.
Jeez. I just had to miss the podcast where you guys decide to discuss everything under the sun, didn't I? When I was listening to it, I felt like I was watching TV with a man. Just when I started to get interested in the subject you were discussing, you changed the channel and led me down another path. I felt so lost and alone and scared. Why? Why would you do this to me? You remote clickers, you.
But I still love each and every one of you from the top of my head to the very tips of my toes.
Cohabit vs. own?
Call me crazy, but I don't much care for having anything shit in my house aside from my wife or me but if so, it better be done in a toilet. Nothing nicer than walking into a cat person's home and getting hit with that cat shit smell. Oh, YOU keep a clean litter box do you? I suppose your little spiteful demons never once marked anything or expressed their dissatisfaction with you by doing so somewhere in the house? Yeah right. Cat piss is something unique. That's a tough one to get rid of.
I can't comprehend having an animal in the house that exhibits anything from indifference to contempt towards me, let alone stinks up the place. My dog not only won't go in the house, but if no one's home she won't drink any water just to be safe. She also won't shit any closer than 30' from the house.
As to the comment about dogs eating just anything, not my dog, but to be fair, it's impossible to live in my house and not develop a sophisticated palette. ;)
She's partial to leafy greens and nori and has learned how long it takes for different foods to be prepared. I think she has more culinary knowledge than a lot of my friends.
My dog is actually happy to see me come home and sad to see me leave. She'll defend me and this house and she respects me and this house. She's a member of the family, or perhaps I should say the pack.
Oh I could go on, especially after hearing that one-sided love-in of catdom. Listening to that I felt like heaving like those little beasts do with their hairballs. If anything, I think cats should be a christian pet since they exhibit their traits in this country. They have no respect for others, everything is about them, they stink up the place, things have to be their way and if they don't get their way they'll shit on your bed.
Babs:
When I was listening to it, I felt like I was watching TV with a man.
So how come you didn't go into the kitchen to get us a beer?
Philly:
Oh I could go on, especially after hearing that one-sided love-in of catdom.
Are you being dog-matic here?
They have no respect for others, everything is about them, they stink up the place, things have to be their way and if they don't get their way they'll shit on your bed.
Cats have lots of respect for others: they will leave you alone to think or say anything you want -- just as long as you leave them alone and, of course, feed them once in a while. There's none of that silly "c'mon play, fetch, please, please, please, PLEASE!" Cats don't actually demand that things be their way, just that things not be not their way. This is a subtle difference that I can't explain. Cats never shit out of spite; that's a dog thing. Cats pee out of spite or hock up hairballs out of spite or scratch your furniture out of spot. But they pretty much confine their shitting to their box, just the way you pretty much confine yours to the toilet. Dogs on the other hand have to be trained and reminded that the whole world isn't their personal crapper.
Dogs on the other hand have to be trained and reminded that the whole world isn't their personal crapper.
The outside world is. Inside isn't. Reminded? That's a dumb ass dog then. My first figured out the "poop outside" thing on her own. My 2nd I got when she was 11 months old so it was already known.
Not every dog wants to play fetch. None of mine ever did, except in reverse. Mine looks at her treats and looks back at me and repeats the motion as if saying, "come on dummy, fetch me a treat". Also, my dog respects the notion that you don't bother me if I'm working.
My old room mate got a kitten which I liked because it behaved like a dog. Unfortunately it didn't live long due to a birth defect. That's my one good cat story (not good that it died, the other part).
EX:
So how come you didn't go into the kitchen to get us a beer?
Because I just don't think you could have spoken as well as you did on the podcast with a beer bottle shoved up your ass.
Babs
I'm sure he would have settled for a can of beer.
My first figured out the "poop outside" thing on her own. My 2nd I got when she was 11 months old so it was already known.
Why do I get the feeling that Philly doesn't clean up the weiner poopie?
Babs - Because I just don't think you could have spoken as well as you did on the podcast with a beer bottle shoved up your ass.
Babs, don't make me spit my drink on my keyboard!
Oh, christ... I just had a visual of Ex with a wine bottle going in one end and a beer bottle in the other.
The reason I don't have a Jesus statue outside is not so that it won't be abducted because of our lack of scoopin poop. We're well stocked with poop bags.
Note to self: if Babs offers a beer, say "no thank you"
I really object to the 3rd answer on the poll. It's wishy-washy. The point is - are you a cat person or not? Those votes for "I'm an atheist with cats and dogs" apply to a lot of us. But I answered number 1 because I know where my heart is. MEEE-OW.
That was for YOU, Philly.
As the poll nears a close, I have one observation -
Philly is not a TRUE atheist.
Out-group... suspicion, hatred, violence.
I prefer cats to dogs because they seem to me to be less apologetic. And, why should they apologize for vomiting everywhere? I'm the one dumb enough to put up with it.
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